Black Lives Matter has grown into a massive and important movement. Autumn Marie helps us understand how it’s shaking up the world. For more ideas on Uprising and movements, cultural movements and movement marketing, follow Uprising!!! on Facebook. We’ll continue to publish brand-new columns on a regular basis. Hey, do us a favor and please give Uprising!!! a review on iTunes. Scott Goodson is the author of best-selling book ‘Uprising: how to build a brand and change the world by sparking cultural movements,’ available on Amazon.com. Scott has helped create and build some of the world’s most iconic brands. He is founder of StrawberryFrog the world’s first movement marketing agency.
Uprising Interview transcript
Hello everyone, this is Scott Goodson and welcome back to uprising, the show that focuses on movements, the people behind those movements, who are idealists, people who seek social change, people who have big ideas. I’m truly honored today to have someone who I’ve gotten to know over the last year, who I have great respect for. Her name is Autumn Marie, and she represents the black lives matter movement, which has become quite famous in the United States recently, very visible and very engaged in what are pretty significant issues in the United States. Some people call it the 21st century’s civil right movement, but I think actually it has a larger role than that. Personally I’ve never experienced segregated schools, I’ve never been denied the right to vote, never been stopped and frisked, and never experienced bias in my career and school. I personally cannot discount black lives matter by simply saying all lives matter, because that wouldn’t do justice to the struggle my black friends and colleagues or people of color have and have had for many years. I simply do not know what it is to be a black person in the United States, but I watch the news and I see what’s going on, and I don’t know what I can do to help stop it. So, I welcome Autumn Marie onto the show. I’d love to ask you some questions about Black Lives Matter. Just so I understand it and perhaps others understand it and how to get involved. First of all say hi, welcome to the show.
Autumn: Thank you for having me. So yeah, my name is Autumn Marie and I am an organizer and member with the New York City chapter of Black Lives Matter’s network.
Scott: I’m interested in you personally. When did you first become an activist? What happened in your life that you woke up one day and said that this is something I’m really passionate about and I want to get behind a movement? Tell me what happened?
Autumn: I was just born to a black father, you know African American from Mississippi, and a Mexican / Chicana mother. You know, and born as a woman (laughs), carrying those identities growing up in Chicago and for me, it’s as simple as that. I came out with the same type of inherent idea of equality that we talked about earlier. So as a child if I heard someone making jokes about it didn’t matter if it was a Chinese person whoever, I would say “You shouldn’t say that, that’s not right!” So for me it’s always been an inherent thing. I never lost a child’s inherent peace. I never had the question, who can I call, who can enable me? I never had the question of being enabled or being empowered, I never had the question of can I do this? Can someone do this for me? I always tell people that one of my earliest things was when I was maybe 8, I thought we needed more trees in the neighborhood, so I just went and found a phonebook, you know, we didn’t have the internet then. And found green peace and called and wrote a letter and they told me we didn’t have time to do that; it would take a long time. I was 8, I couldn’t even think about what 15 years looked like (laughs). And then things like when the war in Iraq was going on, early on when I was in grade school. No, pardon me; it was when desert storm was going on, in about ’92. I was like this needs to stop. You know, and I wrote a letter to the white house because I was little and I was naïve, and I thought that’s what you do, I thought you wrote a letter to the president and you told them what you want changed. And I got that generic letter back and I was like, oh they read my letter!
But I say those things to say that when I saw there was something wrong, my young mind was like who can I tell, who has, I didn’t understand power dynamics, but for me that’s what it really was. Who has the power dynamic to change this, and how do I write them a letter? How do I call them? It just formalized in high school, we made, I forget what we ended up calling it, it was an all girls school and we originally, me and another outspoken student who was there, she was a white student, and we wanted to come together and call it War, Women Against Racism. We had to change the name because our private school thought that that would, the acronym was a little much for them. I forget what we ended up changing it to; I still like the acronym war. In college we started another organization that was for me a community organizer that worked around incarceration and restorative justice, when it was still burgeoning in its stages. So for me it was those very inherent things, inherent that that’s how people should be treated. The more that I was educated in the world the more that I wanted to get involved, and the more I saw myself, growing up a black and chicano woman, the more I saw my own treatment , the treatment of my parents and my community. I saw the conditions we were around and being able to juxtapose that to perhaps the affluent neighborhood that I went to high school in. Being able to see those differences, the reality of that pushed me into it. There wasn’t a specific moment, you know how some people have a moment of something that happened or that pushed them when they felt empowered, and they had to change. For me it was my very existence, the conditions that made me.
Scott: If you just give us an idea of what Black Lives Matter is?
Autumn: The term and phrase and affirmation and declaration black lives matter is used in several ways, I just want to make sure people understand the different ways they often hear it used. So, there was BLM the hash tag, which was developed by (Alicia Garzers) post on Facebook in response and reflection to what happened with Travon Martin. And then she connected with (Patrice Colors Con and Opal Tanetti) and those are the three women that culminated that hash tag when it originated following Travon Martin’s murder. And then fast-forward to Mike Brown’s murder a couple of weeks later, there were organizers such as (Darnell Moore) in New York who were a part of our chapters who started to have conversations and there were some conversations that were happening in parallel across the country about what it would look like to have black people from across the country come into Ferguson to give some physical support on the ground and to be able to see what was going on there, give support t that community, and this was in the aftermath of Mike Browns murder and in the middle of the Ferguson uprising. And so…
Scott: Can I just interrupt you for one second, for those who aren’t familiar with this. Can you just describe very briefly what happened in Ferguson?
Autumn: So following the murder of Mike Brown by the officer the community responded in a way, people have to understand that there were conditions that made it happen. This was the straw that broke the camel’s back for this community that had already been dealing with all types of issues with the police beyond murder, a lot o it was policy, how the county and the districts are broken up, and laws, and different things. The fact that a lot of the policy has been changed following the organizing that followed mike brown… these issues were already preexisting, the racial tensions, the fact that their white supremacist background and foundation. And so what happened was that when Mike brown was killed by this police officer his body was left laying in the street for 4 hours in the August sun, and anyone who has ever been to St. Louis, its extremely hot in August… The fact that they would not let his father go near to touch him or any of that, you have this, if you think about it visually, you have this body of this young man who is just about to start college. You’re not talking about an adult not that that makes or is any better, but think about how that moves the community and organizes the community. So now all of the community is outside and they’re watching this happen for 4 hours, 4 hours of seeing the neglect of the police department and all of that, of them just allowing his body to sit this in almost this public display, on the ground and watch his blood on the concrete. People need to understand what happened and why the community went to the police station that night, demanding answers to know what happened and accountability and when those answer were not given there was the uprising that people saw on TV. That included a rebellion in terms of buildings being burned on a main street that was near what happened. It was the cry of the people crying out about what happened and the fact that when you see rebellions and, it’s phrased as looting or rioting, it’s really the language of the people who cannot take anymore and have used every other form of language before that.
Scott: I think a lot of people saw that, I mean I certainly did, and it changed me in the sense that it affected me deeply, do you think that was the moment that BLM became a sort of nationally visible movement?
Autumn: I like how you’re saying people were definitely moved, for me being here in NYC and watching it as a black woman I physically did not feel okay with myself, emotionally, spiritually or physically. Being in new York and not being there, and I had a lot of friends who called in early on to offer support , support with organizing and taking supplies, whatever was needed, and I could not take it because what we were seeing on TV wasn’t even about the uprising , it was about militarization. We had never seen that in our generation or in our lifetime. It made the picture of the civil right movement protests; it brought that to life for s in a whole new militarized form. And what we saw in Ferguson, I don’t like to call people protesters, because it sound like there’s’ not a plan, like you’re not organized, so I’m going to say organizers and activists. That’s who these people from the community were. So you saw people with their bodies literally on the line, who were out in the street protesting peacefully because the just wanted answers, they wanted a name. At the very least, tell us who was this officer, give us his name, and there was no release of his name. Watching that, I didn’t feel okay being in New York anymore. These people were putting their bodies on the line for, at that point, almost two weeks, and hurting physically and in every other way. Basically weren’t even sleeping because they were out constantly. So I think people across the country were defiantly moved by those photos and so many different ways. So people organized these rides to come in from across the country for that Labor Day weekend of 2014. Rides came in from LA, New York, Chicago, everywhere you could think of. Busses came in, full of black people of different backgrounds, different social classes, different occupations, busses of black people that came to come speak to people in Ferguson to come support and to have conversation.
Scott: When these images were broadcast in TV did people around the country just say ‘Wow I’ve got to go there to help.’ Was that how people got there, or how did it happen that people got to Ferguson?
Autumn: People met on the ground, so there were people who already went as it happened, got on a plane and went in and connected people on the ground. Also although there were people that were new organizers out of a response of what happened, there are also organizers for black struggle in St. Louis that have been active for decades. So they’re very connected to another organization (Malcolm X grassroots) so there were some organizations that people were already connecting with. So things happen, there are organizers that are connected across the country from seeing those being active, it was easy for people to get out there and connect and say what do you need and connect with the organization that were on the ground as well as the new organizers. So people that some of us knew that were there we were already and in contact with them, they were in contact and supporting the community. These bus rides came in, and after the weekend there were people, who wanted to continue the same work, and they wanted to do it under the BLM name, and so a network was formed, with almost 50 across the country. Toronto and other places globally, that is the network and that is the herstory of the network and how it came to be. And so the chapters that are across the country are doing work. That is the basis of the work, so that each chapter does their own work. Our principles are about fighting anti-blackness. That’s the network. You here Black Lives Matter the term, which was really a term that was given by the media as a way to talk about what was happening across the globe in this larger movement that’s; happening right now because you saw everybody in the streets from here to China because it is a very poignant statement, it is an affirmation, a declaration, a form a protest to be able to say that to some. They then started to term the entire movement as the Black Lives Matter movement. That movement is native to several organizations, tons of organizations, it is basically made up of all of those that believe that black lives matter. That is the movement, and then there is the movement for black lies which is an actual movement umbrella that people within the movement who have similar focus in work have come together, including ourselves, have come together under that umbrella. That is the policy platform. I say all of that to circle back to the question around thinking about what was happening in Ferguson, just the trauma of it and the fact that we had never seen that in this generation. What is actually going on is that black lives matter’s movement is not separate from what has happened beforehand. Black people have been resisting in this country since they first arrived in Jamestown in 1619, and I’d go further and say black people have been resisting since they first started being captured in Africa, and were put on the ships and were jumping overboard or having rebellions on the ships. Black people have been resisting since the times of Nat Turner, and before and after that. What is going on now is actually part of that same lineage of black liberation struggle that is connected to the civil rights movement that is connected to the black power movement and desegregation, and everything that has come before it, because without those movements we would not be where we are now. We would not have the strife for the next generations that comes after us; they won’t have the strife that we had. There is really no way to separate us out from all of that, we carry all of that.
Scott: What is the wrong that needs to be righted?
Autumn: White supremacy and white privilege. They uphold capitalism, and capitalism pushes it. So the way white supremacy and white privilege is ingrained, it’s interesting because sometimes when people ask it’s almost like people are looking for this simplistic answer that is very solvable. Because people want to say how can we get rid of it, but they need to understand that it is a very complex and heavy issue beyond the understanding of one conversation. Black people carry on their back in this country the fact that we still have the remnants of slavery because this country’s foundation and founding fathers built this around protecting white men’s rights. We’re dealing with something that’s been in existence for 400 years and not something that was invented yesterday, and the systems and institutions in the country, though some have been reformed to a certain extent since then, but they still come out of that same foundation. So it’s not a simplistic answer and I think what we need people to understand who challenge it or who are looking for the simple response or simple solution is that there it privilege and lack of understanding when people think that there is even just one thing that can be fixed. There is an entire system that needs to be undone. That also includes personal bias because everything about schooling here upholds that same personally bias, it upholds that same privilege, that same entitlement that people receive. So it really is the white supremacy, it really is the white privilege.
Scott: In Germany today they teach in elementary school all children about the holocaust. What happened in Germany, what happened with the political system there and the consequences of that? The results of that are there is a deeper understanding, for Jewish people, but also people of different backgrounds. But the most important thing is that they talk about something that is incredibly painful in history. Why is that something people are not prepared to talk about here?
Autumn: The average person does not want to do that because the average white person when they come into it, there’s a sense of I’m not responsible of that, or the white guilt, and they don’t know how to deal with that. That’s a different struggle.
Scott: I look at my children for example; they have had some discussions of the past, slavery and such. But I think intuitively they have a strong repulsion for anyone who’s not seen the world the way that people should see the world, which is that everyone should be seen as equal.
Autumn: Children come out with that ability, and with that desire, that natural instinct and desire to see people as being equal. Children come out with that thought.
Scott: I just wonder, I mean obviously this is not a simple issue, but sometimes simple ideas can help change, and I wonder whether a fighting for education but also being able to stand up and say lets recognize the fact that this is what happened to people in this country. It needs to be accepted, it needs to be admitted. Once we do that we’ll be better off for it.
Autumn: So I think part of it is there’s a whole lot of history that is just not talked about, right? There’s this revisionist convenient history that is taught in school. So right now is the 50th anniversary of the Black Panther party, in a couple of week. Very few people learn anything about the black panthers in school. What they learn is that there is this militant group who had guns and wore leather jackets and maybe a few other things, and that they may have had shootouts with the police. They do not learn about the breakfast program. They do not learn that the reason there is a breakfast program across the country is because the Black Panther party started the program, and moved by their action, the education institution rethought that. They don’t learn that the black panthers were in neighborhoods testing for sickle cell anemia, because the people no other way to be tested, and testing for lead paint, taking over houses and vacant buildings to create housing for people in the community. They don’t learn about the people’s grocery program and the people shoes and clothing programs about the Black Panther party. And so it’s not even about slavery, it’s also about learning the real history about what happened in this country in general. So slavery is a part of it but, they just had Columbus Day! We live in a country that still celebrates a white man landing in a place where people were already living, and saying he discovered something; the heart of white privilege, you ‘discover’ something and then reclaim and repackage it as yours. We now see the same thing happening with cultural appropriation all the time. Reclaimed it and gave it a name, thought he was somewhere else, and then everyone came over and starting raping, killing, exterminating indigenous people. We now have a small amount of indigenous people left in this country. It’s about telling the truth about all these things that have been revision, all this history. Living in this country and celebrating Thanksgiving that comes from the slaughter of the (Piquet) people in the northeast and the roots of that, and them proclaiming let’s have thanks giving. So there’s so much of this history that has to be redone. Do you think there’s power in that though? One of the things BLM and other organizations in Chicago push for is that (John Burges) was responsible of the torture of a lot of black men in county jail. It has been a huge thing in Chicago over the last year. One of the things they pushed for, in addition to getting that prosecutor, was also that children in schools in Chicago be taught about this torture that happened when (John Burgers) was in office. As you’re saying, we have to talk about the wrong that has happened, and when we talk about that our children are learning that when they grow up and they get involved they can have a different understanding of what happened and what cannot happen again, and what cannot be repeated. So do you think that there’s power in what you’re saying? I’m just saying that in addition there are so many steps and I think that is a step that needs to be taken.
Scott: There’s such interesting history and a couple of years ago I actually traveled with my family to Haiti, and spent some time travelling around the country there, spent some time at the orphanage. I came across, and you may be familiar with it, the story by a gentleman by the name of (Howard Christie) Do you know who he is? So (Christie) was actually a slave who fought during the American Revolution and ended up moving or being taken back to Haiti. He actually led a slave rebellion in Haiti and became the first king in Haiti. He was a very cultured man, he defeated Napoleons forces and built what is the largest citadel in the west, actually larger than any fort in existence today, in the western hemisphere. He was the leader, he educated the Haitian black people, basically freed the slaves, and as a result of that, a lot of the images we have of Haiti today is of being an island of scary and dangerous voodoo where obviously these mythologies were created by western countries because nobody wanted a slave rebellion. The French didn’t like it, and the British, and the Americans didn’t want that story. So it became a very isolated community. What I loved about his story was that he was a very cultured black leader. The first king of Haiti was a good man, an educated man, did a lot of things for black people. We never hear about that. We never hear those stories or about those leaders. There are leaders up there, like him, who I think are fascinating. Do you think that that’s something that BLM could stand for, like identifying leaders? Because I think as you dive down into details, like you’re talking about, a lot of people get lost because we’re living in a time where people get so distracted; people’s attention spans are like knats. So can BLM stand for just leadership, black leadership? Are those some of the things, I wouldn’t call superficial, but it certainly isn’t lets revise all of history, that would take more than our lifetime. Are there simpler things like identifying leaders…?
Autumn: What do you mean, leaders from the past, who people are not familiar with?
Autumn: That’s a part of it, right? So that’s the part of it we say that for activists and organizers is what is known as political education. In New York our chapter we have something called communiversity. That’s a huge part of it, making sure our unsung heroes and sheroes that people don’t know. And that’s’ why specifically we tell the story about BLM because 30 years from now people might not know who (Alicia Patrice and Opal) were but that story may be told. If you read the BLM story may be told in 3 sentences and their names may never be mentioned. That’s why we make it a priority to mention their names so that people can hear that, for that reason, so knowledge is power!
Scott: Do you think there are a lot of people who believe in it, maybe the majority of Americans that are not black?
Autumn: I do not think that the majority of Americans get it, if we did we would be in a different situation than we are now. If we did there would be a different push for reparations and different pieces of what needs to happen. I do think that the larger majority of Americans are completely taken by the amount of violence and police murders and the atrocities that have been happening to black people. But I do think that the larger majority is taken by those when it is a shock and awe situation. So for instance situations like (Sean Bell), who was getting ready to get marriage, 50 shots, and things like that. I do think that when it’s captured on camera when it’s a shock and awe thing, otherwise when it’s not such a clean and clear thing were still having the time. On social media we still have to explain that we should be focused on what happened versus the type of person they were. The first thing we see when a murder like this happens to a black person is if they’ve ever been arrested for anything, even if it was petty theft when they were 17. We see their mug shot, the first thing we see is a story that comes out and it all becomes what type of person this was. They completely try to smudge their character, versus looking at it as this is someone who was just murdered by the police. We don’t see that happen when white people are murdered. We don’t see the larger society when it’s not a shock and awe clear thing, always standing up and saying ‘oh, well let’s see what happened’. So I do think that if people got it in its full capacity then they would understand ad they would see the difference and why there are standoffs and what happens when there are white people having standoffs versus what we’re seeing.
Scott: Personally, I have been seeing think-tanks since last year and I can tell you from my own experience there is a lot of momentum behind the idea of trying to solve this issue. There’s a lot of discussions today around the injustice of the wealthy, and the devolution of the middle class and all that stuff. Part of what I think, on a macro level, part of the Black Lives Matter movement is directly connected to that. It’s like social injustice is not simply a racial issue. It is an issue that affects a lot of people and it is manifested through the tax on black communities for example. Do you think as economic challenges become harder that this issue is going to become a beacon to help us? Because it is something for all of us and it is something to wake people up. It feels like this is something that people are seeing and they can identify. When I say identify I mean obviously they may not be able to identify as a black man, but I think they identify with this type of being in the face of militarization, being in the face of poverty. I think a lot of people can identify with that.
Autumn: I think you can identify with struggle, but I think if people could largely identify with it we wouldn’t see all the push back for all lives matter and such a challenge and being termed BLM. Do you think what has happened with social media boosting conversation, as well as what the videotaping and the public sharing of that, and the citizen journalism that has emerged from that, the empowering of citizen journalism. This problem has been brought to light. Police brutality, stop and frisk, all of this is nothing new in communities, in black and brown and Latino communities. What we’ve seen in the last couple of years is that BLM has really brought that to the forefront. It has pulled the curtain back o America and own the farce of what happens and how America treats its people to the world and also to people who perhaps were living in the suburbs and who were going on with the myth that things has been corrected or that we were living in a country that gave certain equal right and that everyone has the same opportunity and they have to pull themselves by the bootstraps. It pulled the curtain back in a large way, I think to the country and to the world. I o think what it did too it has made people rethink the condition of the country so they’re already looking at it from and economic standpoint. Things that directly affect them but I do think that it has made them uncomfortable. It begs the question about what is going on with how this country is treating black people to a large extent. So I do agree on that level. People are outraged, and there are some simple thing around it that people, in general, can agree are not right, which is why when you see that the officer was acquitted and was not inedited with Eric Gardner you saw a massive protest from people of different backgrounds, people of different races, everything. But again, that’s because it is a shock and awe situation where you’re seeing this man killed and in a choke hold saying ‘I can’t breathe’ on camera which was something that is unquestionable, and is a human rights violation. The more people see statistics the more that people are able to grasp what is going on in this country and what has been going on in this country.
Scott: It seems to me that this issue reparation is something that would be a really good and smart focus. I think it’s one of those things all the issues associated with this that to me seems to be one of fairness. I think America at least the part of the mythology of America is that it’s a country of fairness. It seems to me that would be the thing that people could get behind. For example look what happened last year when it came to light that Georgetown University, one of the most respected universities in the United States, was basically had slaves. Then they came out and they said ‘Okay, we’re going to try and show that we are good citizens by letting any of the families that were sold by educated for free. It sounds a little bit …
Autumn: Yeah, it also is a little bit like, okay, what about everyone else who is affected in general? But it’s a start.
Scott: It’s a start, but to me it’s a sign. I think there’s a bigger sign that there is an appetite for that among the civilized institutions.
Autumn: Well we want reparations, so we are definitely grateful that there’s a large a part of explanation that some ask around that or the movement for black lives policy. People have been asking for reparations, there’s been a long history of many others who been around reparations. There was the lawsuit the large corporate lawsuit that happened over a decade now with JP Morgan Chase and others who profited well insurance companies from the slave trade. There was a large national civil suit that trying to be brought against them , so I do think we definitely wasn’t to have more concrete conversation and demands around what does that look like because we are one of the people around the world that have not seen reparations. We see reparation given to people from the holocaust and other backgrounds and we definitely want to have conversations on what does that look like.
Scott: Based on your personal experience do you that a lot of the problems we face in society could be solved if we just educated more girls?
Autumn: Oh yeah, definitely. Malcolm X aid if we educate a woman we educate a nation. Definitely, I know that Michelle Obama, the first lady, has a huge initiative going on around that right now and I know she just has that large talk yesterday around it. I think there’s something to be said for that because the thing we talk about equality in this country we’re still looking to level of the inequality with women in this country from everything around how much women earn to how education has been prioritized for women in this county. So there’s definitely something to be said for that. How we as women emerge as leaders, there’s a lot to be said for that. A week ago I was at a wonderful event, Champions of Change, at the Whitehouse. It celebrated those who are community change for marginalized women and girls in their community. There’s some excellent work being done. This administration has at least honored the work that is being done around empowering girls and educating girls
Scott: I guess my last question would be, people are listening to this and they feel this is a wrong that needs to be righted. What can people do if they’re really passionate about it, what can they do? What can people like me do?
Autumn: I’ll give you maybe 4 or 5 basic to be more involved, try educating and listening with an open unbiased mind. Recognizing and being willing to admit that there’s such a thing as white privilege, and those who are white, you have benefited form that. Which is not always an easy thing, and it is a complicated thing, that in itself, and being able to listen unbiased and being able to research and to hear so that you understand the conditions of what’s going on. Everyday things of, because for us this is a human rights movement, it is a social justice movement, and it comes out of love, love for black people . So it’s also just the everyday things. How are you treating people on an everyday level? How are you treating black people and people of color in general? So for us that mean, and I say this all the time because I think people are oblivious what we go through every day, how much non-black people bump into us and don’t say excuse me. That might sound like a small thing, but if you say it in a room full of black people, you would be amazed at how much black people say ‘mhmm’ at one. So many things we go through that other people don’t know about and would say ‘what are you talking about’. No really, it happens to us all the time and it makes us feel like we’re not being seen in this world because how else could people bump into us all day and not say excuse me. And it doesn’t happen within ourselves, it’s always non-black people. So yeah I think it’s those little things on how your treat each other. I think another thing you can do is like, how we talk a lot about education, for those who have children, I know you do a lot of work with moms too. It’s what you’re teaching your children, and teaching around, because we all have to teach our children, all of us in this world, outside what’s being taught in school and what media is teaching us, and education is so powerful. So those are some simple every day things you can do. For those who believe this is an everyday thing, talking to those who don’t get it, and having those hard conversations and explaining why you get it, and why that is an issue. So those are very simple everyday things that if actually if everybody did that it would make a huge difference and huge change, then just keeping up with everything that’s going on, so that if there are policy changes that are coming to the table, we can support them. Then looking in a sense being an alley, what does it look like to be an accomplice in the work? So those are my things and sometimes I feel like we come with a large amount of things that are not tactile, that people feel like they can’t grasp, but sometimes it’s about learning about those small everyday things about talking to each other, educating, listening with an open mind to that experience so that it validates that experience, so that it gives a different understanding. If everyone did that it would give us a different reality.
Scott: That’s wonderful, with that I would like to say thank Autumn Marie for joining us today on uprising.
Autumn: Thank you and thank you for the work that you are doing, I definitely want to follow up with you on some conversations about reparations and that many people are in tune with it. Thank you for having conversations that matter, and for getting those conversations out to other people out in the world who can simply listen to things that are happening. Thank you.
Scott: You’re very welcome, it’s been a pleasure.